Sunday, August 14, 2011 at 5:48 PM |  
You know, I was thinking the other day as a warrior was killing me from 100% to 0% during a Titan Strike stun that Rogues don't have a lot to offer in PvP that isn't done better by another class.

For single target damage, we are outpaced by warriors, and warriors have much greater survivability. For AOE damage, all the other classes outpace us completely. Warriors can even apply an incurable AOE healing debuff.

When it comes to healing, bards are light years behind chloro/lock or almost any healing-type cleric.

In fact, the only areas where rogue has an advantage are speed with the flag runner specs, and Eradicate, which is the best offensive dispel in the game.

Nightblade used to be an exception to this rule, but the other classes are so far outpacing NB damage now that it feels like your spitting into the wind.

Just some thoughts. Anyone have a PvP spec or style that doesn't feel like you're a massive underdog? Let me know!
Posted by Dunsparrow


Mags said...

My wife constantly thinks I'm nuts when I say that I feel like the least powerful class in the game while pvping. I let her read your post Dun and I finally got her to back off ;)

August 15, 2011 at 1:28 AM  
Goupil said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
August 15, 2011 at 7:31 AM  
Goupil said...

Maybe 32RS 34Sin 0Ranger :) I have some nices feedbacks from Wars ;)

August 15, 2011 at 8:07 AM  
Lupa said...

I my main pvp spec since 1.2.

Full Stealth
Disengage Stun
Dodge Buff
Foul Play Stun
Maim - Snare
Range Finisher - Flame Thrust
and a bit more...

Really this is my "I dont have to be in steath to have an advantage" Build...

Ive always enjoyed it. Ive tryed gun blade, NB, 51 sin... alot. and this is what i have stuck with for a long time.

The use of many ultiliy buttons from BD is just great.

I have thought about switching out NB for Infiltrator... But not having a range finisher or range build up is bad mojo in alot of situations.

I use the close to triblade macros with a few diffrences.

You get to feel more like a warrior in this build and not ranger or rely on slip away/steath. Just use the 1 steath you have as a perk when needed.

Lupa - Guardian - Briarcliff

If ya want more info dunsparrow feel free to find me on trion boards. "Lupa-J"

August 15, 2011 at 10:05 AM  
Shinzo said...

Lupa, that link you put up, shows that you didn't take foul play, and have even taken Dancing steel. i personally would take the 2 pts out of melted skin and put them elsewhere, because lethal and leaching poison are way better than hellfire blades imo. i understand that you would lose dark malady, but like you said, if the playstyle is more like a warrior and no relying on stealth, i'm not really going to bother stealthing from the start as it can become a bit of a hastle. just my 2c. but i like the theory and everything else of your build :)

August 15, 2011 at 3:53 PM  
Lupa said...

opps... that what i get for being drunk at work =p

But yeah i understand the melted skin issue... but i like dark malady opener on some classes and stun on healers and such...

here is the correct spec.

Yes i use dancing steel... very situational but sometimes when you needa massive aoe.. having 1 is good.

August 15, 2011 at 6:23 PM  
Timber said...

I have tried many builds in the past 2 days and can't come up with on that is not weak... I mean geting stuned by warriors for 8-10 sec.. getting 2 shotted by 2-H warriors... Parry-gon just can't hit even from range.... Clerics that heal yeah they nerfed them but a rogue by him self still can't kill a Cleric from full health to dead.... The rogue class really needs some love somewhere... PvP blows right now do to us being flys and not hurting anyone...

August 16, 2011 at 2:26 PM  
Elge said...

A variation of your deep Nightblade spec. I went 20 into Inf instead of just 16 for the unlimited stealth and 3/3 Focused Intent as well as spell damage mitigation from finishers (6% is still something).

With the excess points spent in Inf, 2 points in Ranger felt useless, so I went 2 in Riftstalker instead for the 6% attack power and the convenience of a teleport in or out of stealth. I also switched around some of the points in Nightblade to give Twilight Force a snare and to improve weapon enchantments, taking these 4 points from Lingering Flame so it's only at 1/5.

I've found tremendous success with this build.

August 16, 2011 at 5:02 PM  
oha said...

i've had some success since 1.4 patch with 44NB/12BD (side steps, dodge, speed buff and spell interrupt)/ 10 Inf for cleanse soul.

i think the main problem we have atm is due to the HP increase from the P7-8 gear and planar essences. everyone has a much higher HP pool, 1k valor and most classes have self heals.

the rogue dps isn't increased enough to match the HP increase and we don't have self heals to keep us going...

August 17, 2011 at 12:05 AM  
Syntex said...

I think the problem is we lack defensive abilities in all our trees except NB but at that point it becomes a choice between "Not die(as fast)" or "kill something".

Rogues need less stupid abilities in trees(Fiery Chains, Weapon Flare, Crossfire, Lightning Fury, Poison Malice, Baneful Touch, Motif of Encouragement to name a few) and more defensive abilities to actually go toe to toe with a warrior without popping cooldowns. The only way we can beat warriors is to circumvent their damage and hurt them while avoiding it altogether which isn't even a fair fight. You bleed them out following with slip away, out range them with marks, or just die.

Also for NB and Assassination spec we have a big problem that no other class has. Because 5+ abilities are usable while in stealth only that gives those trees 5 less abilities to defend our selves with where the other classes get 5 more abilities to utilize. That combined with we need to build combo points on a target where warriors, clerics, and mages can just nuke from the getgo makes it slow for us to build up damage and we have to be in melee range for almost every spec which is even worse.

They have a lot of work to do to say the least.

I say though that a buff will come to us at some point and we will be dominating when that happens.

August 18, 2011 at 1:05 AM  
Shinzo said...

guys if you're struggling, I have resorted to just assisting off my warrior mate. i just spam eradicate on his target and try to help him out. every now and then i'll use Imp H & R to kill a low valor player, but for now, i just try to assist others.

44MM/22sin/0inf is what i've been using for WF's.

August 18, 2011 at 2:28 AM  
oha said...

i've been using theft of thought in warfronts. i just train healers and drain them to 0 :) i'm not gonna kill much but at least i feel useful.

August 18, 2011 at 11:09 AM  
Gunzip said...

I'm glad you are seeing rogues the way I am now, we are underwhelming and need something.

August 18, 2011 at 5:57 PM  
Vixtrola said...

I know you have said you do not like assassin but i'd really consider it.. I just hit rank 4 and loving my sin...:)

August 18, 2011 at 7:45 PM  
Timber said...

I have been useing 51Sin 15Inf ORng
and it seem to be doing well even against that stupied warrior build Zin's Rage build or what ever its called.

August 26, 2011 at 7:25 PM