Tuesday, November 1, 2011 at 2:29 PM |  
I saw this one coming. Trion is looking to nerf Rogues in PvP and lower our damage in PvE by nerfing the MM crystal to 30% bonus damage on electrified munitions.

We are aware that certain Nightblade related specs are creating issues in PvP. We are looking to address the issues that we perceive.
I'm not going to discuss the issues in this thread - I'm just popping in to let you know we are looking at things.

No, its not because rogues are overpowered, its because idiots from other classes don't know what to do with themselves when rogues are competitive DPS in PvE, and aren't free kills in PvP. So, they head to the forums and whine.

Prior to 1.5, healers could -- quite literally -- ignore rogues, keep themselves alive and heal their team. Rogues were a non-factor in PvP. Even as the old 51 MM, Improved Hit and Run only gave Rogues brief periods of time to do competitive damage. They still were no threat to high-rank healers or warriors.

Obviously, any change to rogues that takes them into the realm of playability is going to present some growing pains. Of course that P8 rogue is going to kill the P6 cleric who previously ignored him. It's obvious. The cleric is not used to rogues being a threat, and the rogue has been fighting an uphill battle for 3 months in PvP. It's like someone finally took the weights off the bat.

When that happens, some players run to the forums to cry, and some dig in and work on improving. If Trion listens to the whiners, who are complaining with obviously incomplete information about mechanics that they obviously don't understand, then nothing good will ever be accomplished.

Maybe the next time that cleric runs into the rogue, he'll be a damn sight more careful. He might even have to start using abilities and cooldowns he didn't use before or he might have to focus heals on himself instead of letting hots do all the work.

Eventually, each class will come up with new strategies to adapt to the new gamescape. I've already seen it happen with equal-rank members of every class. I've beat them, they've adapted, they've beat me, I've adapted, etc. That's why we play.

It's not supposed to be easy for you to trash an equally skilled and geared player from another class. If it is, that is a problem. Rogues were in that untenable position in 1.5. Now we're not. Its imperative that Trion gives everyone time to adjust, and not make knee-jerk changes to put rogues right back in the crapper.
Posted by Dunsparrow


Anonymous said...

Few things I'd like to take note of, Im a p6 rogue and I dominate at times in warfronts and others I do not. I fight people 1v1 to test skills and comes out different. I can beat p8 warriors and some I cannot. I find that my only trouble when it comes to pvp is running into that fellow NB rogue that is of higher rank. My skill lets me overcome those equal to or less in rank. I'd like to say that ever since 1.5 hit, it's been a dream come true. I got to rank 6 prior to the buff and it was a pain, now I can actually enjoy the rank that I am and it makes sense. The problem isnt that rogues are overpowered it's that rogues have worked so hard up to now to be high rank just to beable to kill. Idk how many of my fellow rogues out there had to get p5+ just to be viable in a warfront. That ol' barding til p5 or MM then switching to 51sin. You know even if they nerf NB in some way, I have builds ready to go that do just as much and you can doubt that but it's true. So, if anyone out there has that mentality that ending the NB/RS reign with a fucking grin. I hope you someday feel our pain in your class. We were basicially food up until 1.5. I know too many of you "skilled" players out there whining about us to the Teacher and in reality you don't theorycraft and you DO NOT have skill. I can think of a mage off the top of my head constantly crunching numbers and coming up with new ways to take us down PRE-mage buff. The problem with you warriors is that you used to be able to run in destroy everything and not be concerned if there was a healer behind you. Well guess what boys, we don't need healers half the time and we won't put up with your garbage so called skill anymore you two button wonders. No matter what happens this point on all of us rogues are here and we are now r6+. So grit your teeeth and complain away because the theorycraft never ends and we'll never stop improving. By the way, FUCK YOU. - Not you Duns.

November 2, 2011 at 8:18 AM  
Dunsparrow said...

Couldn't have said it better.

November 3, 2011 at 1:42 PM  
Anonymous said...

"Trion is looking to nerf Rogues in PvP and lower our damage in PvE by nerfing the MM crystal to 30% bonus damage on electrified munitions."

I think the changes will be fine. And I'm glad NB is getting a nerf, honestly. Almost every rogue I see is either NB/RS or MM. It's lame. I can take down both EASILY in dun's solo build. What's worse is that since 1.5 everyone and their mother has a rogue now. I played since headstart as rogue and it's still my only toon so to me it's annoying to see rogues as the FOTM. And I hope 1.6 ends it. And I'll go on to learn a new build and still kick ass in pvp and pve.

November 3, 2011 at 3:51 PM  
Anonymous said...

Prefacing this by saying I got R6 right before 1.5 came out and have been a rogue since headstart, listening to everyone complain about how I was a FOTM after it came out ticked me off. I spent all that time getting ragged on by other classes for not being high enough dps since I was ranged and having to listen to *CLERICS* B&M about not having any heals in warfronts til I broke down and barded to shut them up. It was pretty damn insulting when I and another rogue were focus firing a cleric and he yawned at us and proceeded to kill us both, because even together we weren't a threat in that warfront. Then 1.5 came along and suddenly crap got real because everyone could kill everyone else... and Clerics lost their easy mode and the complaining started up about how we're OP. I along with every other long term rogue on my shard were explaining you're doing it wrong because we still die, you just can't be stupid about it anymore because we'll race you to see who dies first now. Yeah, I probably just restated everything up there but damn it made me feel better getting it out. Also.. Dun, with your help I have developed a taste for Cleric blood... I look to you and the others for help in keeping my bloodlust satiated.

November 4, 2011 at 1:48 AM  
Anonymous said...

-First comment, btw def getting top dmg and managing a very nice KD ie. 8-0 , 8-2 , etc etc. 51MM,15inf hello ranged troll.

November 6, 2011 at 3:59 AM  
Anonymous said...

Wait, what??? I am a p5 rogue and I dominate PVP, hands down. Most of which is just using fan out, which is fucking ridiculous. That requires ZERO skill and needs to be nerfed RIGHT NOW. I play my p2 Cleric because I feel guilty. When you see a WF where 10/12 players are rogues..something is very wrong.

November 7, 2011 at 4:44 PM  
Anonymous said...

I'm a R8 MM and I *rarely* fan out unless it's at a control point that several opponents are trying to cap. So yeah, they can nerf it cause I'm tired of the noob MMs 'spraying and praying'.

One issue with another rogue spec in PvP is that guardians can scale the wall to the immediate left of the church with stones by teleporting. I saw some Seastone premades doing this during the last bonus weekend and it was redic. I hope that's the issue they're not speaking of but fixing, because I'm sure it will catch on (if it hasn't already).

November 9, 2011 at 10:05 AM  
Anonymous said...


November 15, 2011 at 10:29 PM  
Anonymous said...

funny man you run a lot of 12 man WFs do ya? which ones cap out at 12 man teams?

fact is there are aspects, such as proc on munitions on aoe abilities (i.e. fan out) that are annoying. but taking a couple seconds to purge or simply closing the gap and 2 shotting the squishy rogue is very easy to do.

The changes to rogue from 1.6 were ok for pvp but they severely neutered things on the pve side which is terrible.

Anyone getting face rolled by lesser geared rogues in pvp should stop pvp'ing anyway.

November 18, 2011 at 5:22 PM